SturdiProducts “SturdiBag”

photo-6Best suited for: In-cabin airplane carrier (Small and Cube sizes; Large size with warning), car carrier
Also works for: Over the shoulder carrier
Quality: ★★★★★
Price: $$$$
Overall rating: ★★★★★

We bought SturdiProducts’ large-sized SturdiBag in the belief that it was just barely acceptable to most airlines. We now know that it’s too big (12Hx18Lx12W). On the bright side, its support struts are very flexible, so it does, in fact, fit under every seat we’ve encountered (and Otto the cat and Chloe the dog have both been fine — the carrier has a lot of headroom).

Also on the bright side, it’s a beautifully-made product, with great features like top ventilation panels (with privacy blinds) and a small top hatch that zips open to allow pats. It’s very light (the Large size is 2 lbs., 10 oz.; the Small size is 3 oz. lighter; and the Cube is just 1 lb., 10 oz.), which helps with the airlines’ weight limits. It also has built-in loops through which a seat belt can be buckled, making it an excellent car carrier.

The Extra Large SturdiBag (16Hx20Lx12W) is far too large for airplane use, but it’s a terrific over-the-shoulder carrier and car carrier for dogs up to the size of a Cocker Spaniel or a Sheltie.

Unusually, the SturdiBag comes with a divider in two sizes (Large and Extra Large), so you can carry two pets together, but each in their own space.

If you have a pet that fits into the small SturdiBag or the SturdiBag Cube (at 10Hx18Lx10W and 10Hx10Lx10W, they’re both pretty close to the major airlines’ maximums), I recommend them unhesitatingly. We love the Large size, and it’s fit under every seat we’ve been in, but it’s enough over the airline’s maximum sizes that you’ll have some anxious moments talking to ticket agents. So far, showing them how flexible its sides are has been effective — they’ve been willing to let the flight crew make the call, and no flight attendant has flickered an eyebrow at it.

Amazon links:
SturdiBag Large Pet Carrier – Black
SturdiBag Small Black Pet Carrier

50 Comments »

  • Ellie says:

    Hello. I am considering the Sturdibag for my mini dachshund for an 11hr international flight later this year. Luckily he is very short in height. I am undecided between the small and large sizes. Basically, as the length is the same for both the only consideration is the height, My dog is 20cm (8 inches) at the shoulder. Do you think a small size will be roomy enough for him? Im concerned about a large being refused at the airport. Im flying from a country where dogs are not common and dogs on flights are even less common (South Korea).

    Is your cavalier a tight fit in the large size?

    Thanks for your thoughts and opinions.

  • m-a says:

    Hello, Ellie! If your pup is 8″ tall at the shoulder, he should be just fine in a small SturdiBag. As you say, the length is the same for the Small and the Large, so he’ll have the same scope in that dimension, and you’ll find that he spends his time curled up sleeping or stretched out sleeping — so he only needs the height every so often — and he’ll have what he needs with the Small. And the peace of mind it will give you! I’ve had no real problem yet with the large SturdiBag, but I’ve been questioned about it several times — so I always approach the ticket counter nervously. The problem you need to look out for is weight — if you’re traveling by Korean Air, for example, their maximum weight is pretty low (check out the chart under “Guides” at the right). The smaller your carrier, the less likely it is they’ll insist on weighing it, but there’s always that risk. Please let me know what you decide and how your trip goes!

  • Elizabeth says:

    I bought the large SturdiBag on your recommendation for my 9-pound Yorkie. He fits into the small version of the Teafco Argo aeropet bag, but I always thought it seemed too small even though he didn’t mind being in there. A few months ago, though, he ripped out of it when we left him alone in it for an hour at a friend’s house (separation anxiety).

    So! In addition to the SturdiBag, I also bought the SleepyPod (you seriously are my guru about these things) because it can fold flat and I have this vision that if we ever get rejected for the SturdiBag, we’ll transfer him to the SleepyPod and check the SturdiBag.

    All of that being said, I’m still nervous about bringing the SturdiBag on a flight. How have you been questioned before, and what sorts of things do they ask/say? I know you mention acting nervous and demonstrating the flexible sides, but what else can I do to avoid having to deal with confrontation?

    Thanks for all of your hard work – I hope you know how invaluable your websites have been for me!

  • m-a says:

    Hello, Elizabeth! Thanks so much for your comment and for your kind words — I really appreciate it! I like your belt-and-suspenders approach. My husband’s always loaded to the gills with his own carry-on stuff, so it wouldn’t work for us, but how clever! I’ve been questioned 3 or 4 times about Chloe’s large SturdiBag, by a ticketing agent once and a gate agent a couple (3?) times. Their question has always been of the form “will that fit under a seat?” or “isn’t that too big to fit under a seat?” Each time, when I showed them how much the sides and top flex, they effectively shrugged and let the flight attendants deal with it. The flight attendants have never questioned me about it. My only other suggestion is to buy it in black, so it looks smaller than the grey one we have. (I don’t actually recommend acting nervous — I just am, inside, when I get to the counter. I recommend being cooperative and responsive, and a little bit like you might burst into tears if you can’t get on the plane — which is about how I normally feel when I’ve been traveling for a while.)

  • Elizabeth says:

    Yeah, I naturally get nervous and weepy, too. I did get the SturdiBag in black, so I should be set. I realize that you’ve answered these questions about a bazillion times on Dog Jaunt…thanks for taking the time to respond to me.

    We don’t have any immediate plans to travel with Baxter – at least not until later in the summer – but after we do I’ll let you know how things go. He’s been a great traveler in his Teafco bag, and he loves the SturdiBag even more – so as long as the airline peeps are nice, we should be good to go. :)

  • m-a says:

    No problem at all, Elizabeth! And you’re very welcome. I’d love to hear how the travels go, when they happen!

  • Sue says:

    I’m delighted to find your site today after a few weeks of looking online for enough information about in cabin carriers to make a good decision. THANK YOU for all your great information! I plan to travel NY to CA and back next month with my 12 pound Boston puppy. He’s 11.5 inches tall and 13 inches long and terribly sweet. I am thinking your favorite carrier for Chloe would work good for him too, but am concerned about being turned down by United airlines (17x10x10, as you know). I understand sturdibag collapses down, but does the length collapse also, if I have to ‘show’ it can be regulation size? Do you have any other ideas for me? I would like to spend in the 50 range, but will go up to 80 or so. Thanks so much for your website!

  • m-a says:

    Hello, Sue! Thanks so much for your comment. You pup sounds like he’s just about the same size as Chloe (maybe a hair smaller), and I think the SturdiBag would be an excellent choice for you guys. We’ve used it on all of our United flights, without trouble. Take a look at the measurements I’ve posted on my other blog, Dog Jaunt, and you’ll see why: If you choose a middle seat, the 18″ long SturdiBag fits just fine. http://www.dogjaunt.com/guides/airplane-under-seat-measurements/

    I realize that it’s larger than United’s stated maximums, but I believe they’ve chosen those measurements because their smallest under-seat space will fit a carrier that size. You may need to demonstrate how flexible the bag is, and one of you will have to bite the bullet and sit in a middle seat (because no, alas, it does not flex in length, just in height and width), but it will work.

    Let me know how it goes, and safe travels!!!

  • Karen Blinn says:

    Your site is a godsend for me! My Papillon and I have been invited to the National Obedience Invitational Tournament in Long Beach, CA in Dec., and I am in the market for the perfect carrier for him. He weights 6.6 lbs. and is 10.5 in. tall. I had originally thought I wanted a wheeled carrier for ease in getting him through the airports, but after reading the reviews on trying to get them to fit beneath the seats, I am not so sure. The SturdiBag certainly looks nice and is reasonably priced. At his size, which size of SturdiBag would you recommend? We are flying Southwest. If you have come across any other wheeled bags that you think are good for a dog of his size, that would be great to know about, too. Thank you for providing all of this wonderful information to those of us who only very rarely fly with a dog.

  • Ashley says:

    Just ordered my girls two Sturdibags (we are flying to San Diego this winter for a vacation and will also use them in the car)! Can’t thank you enough for your website!! :)

  • m-a says:

    You are so welcome, Ashley! Safe travels — and if you get a chance, please let me know what you and your pups think of their SturdiBags.

  • m-a says:

    Hello, Karen — How exciting! And how hard you and your pup must have worked to get to this point — I’m truly impressed. Now then — it sounds as though your dog is about half Chloe’s size. If you want to go with a SturdiBag, I suspect that he’d be fine in a size Small (18x10x10), and if so, you’d have no problem whatever getting him on the plane. I’d order one and see what you (and he) think, but I don’t think he needs the extra space of the size Large.
    Also consider the Sleepypod Air — it’s a wonderful carrier because its ends can be folded up to fit in a small space — but they normally flop down, giving your dog a lot of room to move around. I’ve posted a review of it on this site, if you want to take a look.
    If you’d like to look at a wheeled carrier, I’ll bet he’d fit in the Creature Leisure Pet Pilot XL (also reviewed on this site). I love ours — it’s really well-made and well-designed — but it’s just a hair too small for Chloe.

  • Kqren Blinn says:

    Thanks for your advice! I’m thinking it’s going to have to be the SturdiBag as it seems like a great bag for the price. The Creature Leisure bag looks marvelous, but the price stops me in my tracks. The Sleepypod seems a little complex, what with all of the diagrams and stuff. I appreciate your advice on which size Sturdi to buy. Again, this you have come up with a great website!

  • Kenny says:

    I bought the Large Sturdibag in Black, and plan on using it on a Southwest flight. Has anyone had any problems with the large size on a southwest flight?

  • m-a says:

    Hi, Kenny — It’s always worked for us, but maybe someone else will have had a different experience.

  • Jason says:

    Just wanted to say thanks for all your reviews! After reading them I settled on the Sturdibag large for some recent travel on USAir’s smaller planes. The only concern I had was the 18″ length, since the 12″ width is well within USAir’s limits & the collapsing nature of the bag meant the 8″ height restriction wouldn’t be a problem either.

    I expressed my concern about the bag’s length to a customer service rep at Sturdiproduts, and he provided me with an easy solution. The base is light-but-strong foam core, 18″ x 12″. It’s fits into a compartment that zips open & closed; Sturdi’s rep told me cutting 1″ off the length wouldn’t affect the bag’s stability or structure, and having taken a trip with the now 17″ long base I can attest to that being correct!

    For reference, my dog is a Shih Tzu mix, 14″ shoulder to tailbone, 10″ shoulder to foot, and 12lbs depending on coat length.

  • yulka says:

    Thank you SO-SO much for this website. It really helped me alot to make a decision on which carrier will work best for my dog. I ended up getting large black sturdibag. Thanks again!

  • m-a says:

    What a great idea, Jason! Thanks so much for your comment — I’ve never heard of doing that before. Such a simple solution to the problem!

  • m-a says:

    Thanks so much, Yulka — I’m really glad to have helped! Please let me know what you and your pup think of the carrier, and safe travels!

  • Michelle says:

    Thank you so much for this wonderful information – it has been very helpful! I’m torn between the large and extra large sizes. We are fortunate to be flying Frontier, which has more generous under seat measurements than most (24″ long, 15.5″ wide, 10″ high). At the time of booking I confirmed that a 12″ carrier (like the large) is acceptable as long as it flexes to fit under the seat. However, both of my Cavaliers are at 12″ from floor to shoulder and I am worried that it will be too tight for them. I am afraid to call back and ask about a 16″ carrier lest they start questioning whether our dogs are too big. Since we are only planning on flying this once with them (we are relocating), would the large be OK or should I check with the airline about the extra large?

  • m-a says:

    Hi, Michelle! I’m so glad you’re finding the site helpful. In your situation, I’d go with the large SturdiBag, not the extra large. The top is flexible, true, but six inches is darned far for even this bag to flex. Also, Chloe is 12″ tall at the shoulder, and fits well in the 12″ tall large SturdiBag (the shoulder-height measurement is the crucial one, since they can stand up and turn around in a bag that’s as tall as their shoulders). In fact, she has traveled comfortably in the 10″ tall Sleepypod Air, but I prefer the large SturdiBag for her. The fact is, she spends most of the flight lying down, typically curled up, so being tucked into a 12″ tall space isn’t tragic — and as soon as you take off, you can pull the bags out into your foot area, the tops will flex upwards again, and they’ll have all the room they need. Hey, perhaps if this trip goes smoothly, it WON’T be your only flight with the pups! ;)

  • Michelle Staros says:

    Thank you for your fast response. I went with your suggestion and ordered two of the large sturdibags. They had to scrunch their heads a little to stand up in them but, like Chloe, they spent most of their time laying down anyway. We had no issues at all getting on the plane and the flight went much smoother than we had anticipated. Our older cavalier did whine a bit at intervals, but for the most part they both just slept through the ride! We were so afraid of trying to travel with them on a plane that we almost drove. I’m so glad I found your blog as it convinced us to give flying a try and we were all spared a four day car trip :)

  • m-a says:

    What comment could possibly make me happier?! So glad everything worked out for you and the pups, Michelle — so glad!!

  • F-S says:

    Hello, All your comments have been so helpful and a bit of a relief. I just bought the Studibag Large for my shih tzu; I actually had it delivered from the US to Dubai, UAE. We will be travelling with him back home on a Lufthansa flight. I am just concered about a couple of things; the height of the bag and the weight of my dog. I will try my best to demonstrate to the airline staff the flexibility of the bag but I am worried that the ticket agents in Dubai will not be as impressed as those back home. My dog weighs in at a little under 8 kgs; the reservation line advised that its up to the ticket agents to let us through. Has anyone faced an issue with weight? We have him on a diet to help shed those extra pounds but I’m worried that we may still be overweight :)

  • Jess says:

    I have the Sturdibag Large and have flown with it and my 12 lb dog probably over a dozen times with many different airlines including United and Alaska. I have only been questioned about it once and that was resolved after they saw how the bag squishes down in height. I love mine. I have had it for years and it looks like new. I also use it for rides in the car using the seatbelt attachment.

  • Adam says:

    Wonderful website. I am in need of a good carrier to move my cats from Japan to Canada. One will be in the cabin with me, and she gets pretty nuts even on short car rides. She is a small cat, so I think the small sturdibag will work for her (it is the same dimentions as the carrier I have now). I have one question that I haven’t been able to find the asnwer to: does the small bag also have the small opening at the top so I can pet her to try and calm her down? If not, I will contact the airline to see if the large one will not be a problem.

    Thanks again, this is such a wonderful resource for pet owners!

  • m-a says:

    Thanks so much, Adam! Yes, the small SturdiBag carrier does have the same zipped opening on top the large one has, that lets you see and reach down into it. Fingers crossed that your feisty girl has a good trip!

  • Jim says:

    Hi there, I’m trying to research a bag that is suitable for my dog. He is a Jack Russel Mix. I always have seen him as a smaller dog, but people have said he’s not as small as I always presume him to be. He stands at 12″ height, length is roughly about 18-20″ (I can’t get a proper measurement because he’s always hunched over scared of my tape measurer). Weighs in at 17 Lbs with a big stout chest that rivals in diameter.

    Regardless, would he even be able to fly in cabin? I know when he is laying down and curled up he’s pretty small in comparison to his actual stretched out size. But would you recommend a L or XL for him?

    Thanks

  • Jim says:

    Note. The length is from tip of nose to tail bone fully extended. Don’t know if that helps or not.

  • CZB says:

    Hi! And thank you for this site! I am concerned about which carrier works best for an 8 week old large breed puppy. Will be flying on Virgin America from NY to Los Angeles and the space is really low at 8″ in height. You have mentioned flying on Virgin elsewhere but like I said I am nervous and unsure between a Sturdibag or the Sleepypod since it is collapsible. I just want her to have room and of course fit under the seat.

  • Jennifer says:

    Hi there, I am planning a 4 hour trip with my shihzu mix. I just bought a medium SturdiBag and am worried it is not big enough. I Am flying Usairways and was worried I wouldnt be allowed on a flight with the Large Sturdi… But as I read the comments above I cant help but wonder if I purchased the correcr size for my pup. She is 14″ Long from shoulder to tail bone and about 10″ shoulder to foot. Any help?? Thanks!

  • Jennifer says:

    Correction to the comment above.. i just realized i do in fact have a large sturdi bag. But Im still worried about my pups comfort.. help!!

  • P says:

    All of this info is very helpful. My pup is 12″ at shoulder height and 14″ in length, so the Sturdi large seems like it will be best fit. We tried her in a Sleepypod Air in the store but it seemed too small for her. But sounds like you make it work.

  • m-a says:

    It should work fine, P — you’re right, the Air is a bit short for Chloe, but we only use it on short trips (to be honest, I can’t remember the last time we used it — it’s a terrific carrier, but the SturdiBag is really the one we turn to).

  • Jessica says:

    Thank you so much for your recommendation of the SturdiBag. We recently flew with our miniature dachshund for the first time. He is a member of our family, and I did much research to ensure we purchased a carrier that would not only be comfortable for our pooch, but would comply with Southwest’s regulations. I had a few misgivings about ordering a large bag vs. a small, but wanted to make sure my little guy had enough room to be comfortable for the cross-country flight. I purchased it on Petsmart.com the week of Thanksgiving, and got it at a STEAL of a price! (I believe it’s currently on their website for $79.99; still an awesome deal). No one batted an eyelash at the size of the bag, from the ticket agents, to the TSA attendants,to the flight attendants. I even had the bag oriented front to back under the seat, and it only stuck out a little. No one seemed to mind. I HIGHLY recommend the SturdiBag to anyone considering flying with Fido. Plus, the padding inside is so soft!

  • m-a says:

    Thank you for the report, Jessica! It’s so helpful to other readers to hear more experiences than mine, and with other dogs than Chloe. I’m glad, too, that the trip went well for you guys!

  • m-a says:

    Hi, Jennifer! I’m so sorry for the late, LATE reply — hopefully you’ve discovered by now that the large SturdiBag should work just fine with your 14″ long Shih-Tzu mix. She sounds about the same size as Chloe, and the large SturdiBag is our go-to bag.

  • m-a says:

    Hi, CZB! I fear this is WAY TOO LATE for your purposes, but if I had replied timely I would have said the large SturdiBag is a better choice than the Sleepypod. I love the Sleepypod products, but the large round Sleepypod is not as flexible as the SturdiBag, and the Sleepypod Air is too small for a large-breed puppy. (Frankly, it’s too short for Chloe, but I sometimes use it on short flights, and where I’m uneasy about the available space.)

  • m-a says:

    Hi, Jim — I’m so sorry for this delayed answer…. Your Jack Russell sounds about the same size as Chloe, in fact, just sturdier. I think the large SturdiBag would work (it’s certainly worth a try, and you’ll know whether he’s comfortable in it when you see him). The XL would, of course, give him more room — but it’s really a big bag, and I personally can’t handle the anxiety of trying to get it on board.

  • Joe says:

    When I flew with my two cats to Costa Rica in 2007, I spent hours researching pet carriers for the flight. I finally decided on the “Sherpa Delta Pet Carrier” because it seemed to be well made and, since I was flying Delta, I knew that I wouldn’t be questioned about the size. Boy, was I wrong! Shortly after boarding the flight, BOTH cats had torn through the mesh ventilation area and one had even escaped! My friend and I spent the whole 5 hour flight bent over physically holding the ripped areas closed to prevent them from escaping again. Miserable experience, to say the least.

    I’m planning my trip back in a few months, so I contacted several vendors about the construction of their mesh ventilation areas. Within hours I received a reply from Don at SturdiBag, who offered to upgrade the mesh areas with a heavier grade, more durable material at a reasonable cost. Most of you will never have a problem like I encountered on the flight to Costa Rica, but now I can travel with the peace of mind knowing that Brother Boy and Gringo will be safe and secure in their carriers. I can’t speak highly enough about the customer service at SturdiBag, and even though I haven’t actually used the product yet, I have complete faith that it will alleviate my concerns. Above and beyond customer service is so rare these days, and so nice to encounter.

  • m-a says:

    What a saga! And what a happy ending — I had no idea that SturdiBag would customize their mesh ventilation panels. Thank you very much, Joe. I’ll pass on the word, so other travelers worried about their pet’s claws + anxiety + mesh can benefit.

  • Abby says:

    Hi, I am flying with my 8 pound Morkie for the first time on Southwest and bought the Large Sturdi bag…wanted to make sure he had plenty of space. Do you have a seat that you think is best? I usually like the aisle because I go to the bathroom a lot. I was also wondering if I should take the dog to the bathroom with me when I go or if I have to leave him under the seat?? Another fear I was kind of having was whether I should go to the vet and get him anything to keep him calm..have any advice on that? He rides in the car all the time and is fine but I have never taken him on a plane. One last question, on the off chance that I have a seat open beside me (seems very unlikely), can he sit in his bag on the seat or does he have to stay on the floor?? Love your website, it has defiantly made me feel better about using this bag on the plane..I thought my only option was going to be southwest bag and completely hated the idea of the bag, looks hard to carry and so short during layovers! Thanks in advance for answering all my questions!

  • Ritika says:

    Hello..

    I am going to travel abroad , 16 hours flight with one stop… I hav a pomchi , name is Tiger, weighs 9 pounds and 12/12.5inch H, 15L and 8W… I tried to take measurements as accurate as I could… :-) I have been struggling to pick up a in-cabin carrier for him and we tried Sherpa Large at Petsmart , Tiger hardly fits into it so I am considering lil bit larger that and considering Extra large Sturdibag but after reading the blog/comments I am confused whether to go for Large as someone has mentioned in comments that Tiger would be laying down most of the time and Large should work for 12in H pet.. Please suggest .. I am really confused and need help!!! :(

  • m-a says:

    Hi, Ritika — I think the large SturdiBag should be find for a Pom-Chi. The XL really is a monster bag, and I don’t think your pup will need the extra space (and you won’t need the extra anxiety). Hope you guys have a great trip — let us know how it goes!

  • Hannah says:

    Hi, thanks for your review on that product. I have been thinking about buying a dog carrier for soooooo long, and just have such a hard time deciding. About half a year ago I decided on the SturdiBag and asked my Mom to bring me one from the US, as they are much cheaper here, than in Germany. In the end she didn’t bring me one, because she believed it not to be sturdy enough.
    Last time I flew with my Toy Australian Shepherd (about 5kg – 11lbs and 30cm – 12inch) I borrowed a tiny tiny tiny carrier from an animal shelter. Luckily my dog is the #1 Traveldog, he just sleeps for as long at it takes – after all, the flight wasn’t long – after the start I just opened the front so he could stretch out (stretched out he was actually almost twice as long as the carrier).
    Now that I am in the States myself I have been thinking of finally buying a pet carrier I like and that fits him. He is back in Germany which makes it a little harder for me to fit him in the bag, but from your review I think the large size should suffice. I saw it in the store the other day and wanted to try my roommates Toy Poodle in it, but she really wasn’t cooperative trying out the carrier. I reaaaally like the make of it, and I don’t know why my Mom said it’s not sturdy.
    After your review I have finally decided to get a StrudiBag (I know you recommend black, but I love their color selection and think I will go for earthy tan or bone). I have a big, solid car box for him, so I would just need it for flying. I don’t plan on flying every week, but I am traveling quite a bit, and my dog is almost always (except for this time) with me, so I really hope to purchase a good, long lasting product. Additionally I love the design of the SturdiBag, the Sherpa just didn’t do it for me!

  • m-a says:

    Isn’t it great, Hannah? It is light, so maybe that’s what your mom was reacting to — but dang, after a long walk through an airport, she’d regard that as a feature, not a drawback!

  • Charlotte says:

    Hi! I will be getting a Siamese kitten. I am undecided about the cube or the small. She will weigh less than 3lbs when we travel, so I am thinking about the cube. However, I would like to be able to use it for short trips to the vet when she is grown. She will probably be between 6-7 lbs. The biggest siamese I owned was between 10-11 lbs. they are very slender cats. Do you think the cube will be ok at for her? Or should I get the small? Thankmyou

  • m-a says:

    Hi, Charlotte! Your kitten may rattle around in the Small initially, but I really think she’ll appreciate having the room to stretch out and move around when she’s older — especially if you go on long trips together. In the meantime, you can put a tee shirt or a towel in the bag to make it seem smaller and cozier to her. One reader suggested sticking one of those shaped neck pillows in a too-large carrier, to create a snug lair — brilliant, right?

  • m-a says:

    Hi, Abby — I’m so sorry that I lost track of your comment! I’ve only now re-found it and “approved” it. Take a look at the other blog I write, called Dog Jaunt — I think you’ll find the answers that you need there. If not, please write to me again, and this time I promise not to drop the ball. http://www.dogjaunt.com

  • Charlotte says:

    Hi, I’ll get the small. I love the idea about the t shirt and towel, and you are right; the pillow is brilliant! As a added plus, it will let her get use to my smell. Hopefully, it will let her adjust to her new home more quickly. Now I only have to decide what color. I may get the black and paint paw prints all over it. Thanks for the help. Please pet Chloe and Otto for me.

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